[ROVERNET - UK] Tuning TC carbs
Dirk Burrowes
dirk at vy-tek.com
Mon Jul 3 03:10:59 BST 2006
Hi Larry,
I recently rebuilt my carbs on my TC and did the following to balance them.
1) Unscrew the top from the suction chamber and remove damper rod on both
carbs.
2) Use a small rod or sheet metal stick or even 2 identical pencils and push
them so they are level with one another. 3) Fix a piece of tape around each
rod/stick fold back on itself and leave a flag protruding off to the side.
4) Start the car and let it idle 600 to 800 rpm
Now watch each stick to see if the flags rise and fall as you rev the engine
equally. Adjust each carb until they rise and fall together.
I have the carb setting tool and thought I was cool showing it off to a old
time British car mechanic ( who worked on Rovers in the 70s ) He scoffed and
showed the method described above and we were done in 5 minutes and the car
runs great.
I found out later that there is a SU carb tool kit that includes balancing
rods and jet tools. I found it new on EBay for $20.
Give it a try
Dirk
-----Original Message-----
From: rovernet-bounces at lyris.ccdata.com
[mailto:rovernet-bounces at lyris.ccdata.com] On Behalf Of
rovernet-request at lyris.ccdata.com
Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 9:40 PM
To: rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
Subject: rovernet Digest, Vol 44, Issue 4
Send rovernet mailing list submissions to
rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
rovernet-request at lyris.ccdata.com
You can reach the person managing the list at
rovernet-owner at lyris.ccdata.com
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of rovernet digest..."
[ROVERNET-UK]
Today's Topics:
1. TC CARB TUNE (Larry)
2. Re: TC CARB TUNE (Brooks)
3. Re: I've lost my balls!!!!!! (Eric Russell)
4. Re: TC CARB TUNE (Eric Russell)
5. Re: TC CARB TUNE (Slatskars)
6. Re: TC CARB TUNE (Glen Wilson)
7. RE: TC CARB TUNE (Paul Smith)
8. eBay Stores with Rover bits... (Glen Wilson)
9. Re: CKD Rovers (Drew Egginton)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 06:36:38 -0600
From: "Larry" <lewill at ctcweb.net>
Subject: [ROVERNET - UK] TC CARB TUNE
To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
Message-ID: <001701c69dd4$2a8d9ff0$8c48e842 at hewlett2n8fn74>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
I am trying to tune the carbs on a TC without the balancer that is talked
about in the manual. With 92 octane gas and at what idle RPM's would one
set the timing? Any and all suggestions would be helpful. Thanks in advance.
Larry
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 10:06:38 -0300
From: "Brooks" <restore at nbnet.nb.ca>
Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] TC CARB TUNE
To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
Message-ID: <000c01c69dd8$5aa16060$0100a8c0 at DENNIS>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response
Some people have used a strip of paper hung in front of the openings...equal
suction ...means equal balance. Enjoy :)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry" <lewill at ctcweb.net>
To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 9:36 AM
Subject: [ROVERNET - UK] TC CARB TUNE
>I am trying to tune the carbs on a TC without the balancer that is talked
>about in the manual. With 92 octane gas and at what idle RPM's would one
>set the timing? Any and all suggestions would be helpful. Thanks in
>advance. Larry
>
> _______________________________________________
> rovernet mailing list
> rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the bottom and follow
> instructions:
> http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
> Back-up list and photos at:
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 08:37:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Eric Russell <p6rovers at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] I've lost my balls!!!!!!
To: rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
Message-ID: <20060702153733.58021.qmail at web34315.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
How about a crawler for sliding under the car? Do the
wheels have balls bearings sitting in a tray above
each wheel?
Eroc
--- Paul Smith <vmitps at netspace.net.au> wrote:
> Did you use a trolley jack that has them in the
> swivels?
> Also the size of ball is handy.
>
> PVS
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lance La Certe" <lacpsyd at earthlink.net>
> To: "Rovernet" <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
> Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 1:51 PM
> Subject: [ROVERNET - UK] I've lost my balls!!!!!!
>
>
> > I suspect that I'm overly paranoid, but am sure
> that the cognoscenti of
> the
> > Rovernetters may be able to help.
> >
> > I have recently pulled the engine and tranny,
> along with EVERYTHING else
> > in the engine bay (except the power steering box
> and linkage). I have
> > completely painted the engine bay and as I wait
> for the engine to be
> > rebuilt I am cleaning, refurbishing everything
> under the hood----
> >
> > HERE'S THE PROBLEM---- As I have labeled and
> bagged all the various parts
> I
> > have come upon 3 BALL BEARINGS on the garage
> floor. It is possibly, but
> > I'm not so sure how likely, that they were there
> before. Does anyone know
> > if ball bearings are part of any assemblage, so
> that when I removed it
> from
> > the engine bay they just fell out?????
> >
> > I'm convinced I'm going to get the whole front of
> the car back together
> and
> > something is going to be terribly wrong because of
> these balls bearings.
> >
> > Any help would be appreciated..
> >
> >
> > Lance La Certe, Denver, '70 'Federal' 3500S
> > lacpsyd at earthlink.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > rovernet mailing list
> > rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the
> bottom and follow
> instructions:
> >
> http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
> > Back-up list and photos at:
> > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/380 -
> Release Date: 30/06/2006
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> rovernet mailing list
> rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the
> bottom and follow instructions:
> http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
> Back-up list and photos at:
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
>
Webmaster:
The Rover Car Club of Canada - www.roverclub.ca
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 08:46:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Eric Russell <p6rovers at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] TC CARB TUNE
To: rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
Message-ID: <20060702154654.85632.qmail at web34302.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Larry,
The new carbs would idle at about 850 to 900 with 100
octane gas.
(I'm remembering Bob Newhart's "Defusing a Bomb"
comedy line here.....
<http://monologues.co.uk/Bob_Newhart/Defusing_a_Bomb.htm>).
['This plate should be removed with an LT5
screwdriver with a plastic handle and a de-magnetised
tip'... Oh, you don't have one, huh?...
Augh!... use a coin then, Willard! ]
You don't have new carbs or 100 octane gas. Raise the
idle target to 1000 rpm but be careful when shifting
into reverse.
A good friend showed be how to use a piece of rubber
pipe (old rad hose?) to listen to the hiss of air at
each carb. A higher "hiss" noise meant greater vacuum
so we'd adjust the idle screw up or down depending on
which carb we were trying to match.
Eric
--- Larry <lewill at ctcweb.net> wrote:
> I am trying to tune the carbs on a TC without the
> balancer that is talked
> about in the manual. With 92 octane gas and at what
> idle RPM's would one
> set the timing? Any and all suggestions would be
> helpful. Thanks in advance.
> Larry
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> rovernet mailing list
> rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the
> bottom and follow instructions:
> http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
> Back-up list and photos at:
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
>
Webmaster:
The Rover Car Club of Canada - www.roverclub.ca
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 09:13:12 -0700
From: "Slatskars" <slatskars at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] TC CARB TUNE
To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
Message-ID: <001d01c69df2$6acc7af0$6401a8c0 at FAMILYROOM>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response
Take a short piece (about 24 inches) of 1/4" hose, such as vacuum line or
fuel line. Put one end in your ear (either one) place the other end in the
opening of the carb about 1/4". Use your thumb nail as a gauge. You will be
able to hear the air flow and compare them. You can get very close this way.
This is what we did back in the late 50's before we had unisyns. Note: You
disconnect the connecting linkage between the carbs before balancing them.
Then reconnect the linkage and set the idle speed. You could also use a
stethoscope if you have one. Unisyns are not terribly expensive, about $20.
Slats
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry" <lewill at ctcweb.net>
To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 5:36 AM
Subject: [ROVERNET - UK] TC CARB TUNE
>I am trying to tune the carbs on a TC without the balancer that is talked
>about in the manual. With 92 octane gas and at what idle RPM's would one
>set the timing? Any and all suggestions would be helpful. Thanks in
>advance. Larry
>
> _______________________________________________
> rovernet mailing list
> rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the bottom and follow
> instructions:
> http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
> Back-up list and photos at:
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 20:43:44 -0400
From: Glen Wilson <glenwilson at cavtel.net>
Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] TC CARB TUNE
To: rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
Message-ID: <200607022043.44921.glenwilson at cavtel.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
(Eric, 1000 rpm sounds awfully high for a Rover...)
Larry's question mixes up about three or four different issues. This is the
kind of stuff that drives me crazy about dual-SU setups because most of the
procedures and advice go out the window right at the beginning if the carbs
are not in tip top shape. Any leaks or worn parts can mess it all up.
A calibration procedure must be broken down and performed in a number of
steps
in a particular order because several of the adjustments are interactive and
affect each other. Sometimes when you are dealing with two adjustments, one
will change the other but not vice versa. Therefore you have to procede so
that when you have one setting adjusted properly, you don't immediately
screw
it up when you make the next adjustment.
Correct me if I'm wrong in the following because I am not the guru. This is
a
general conceptual description written as sort of an intellectual exercise
to
refresh my understanding.
1. Basics...Get in the ballpark by setting the plug gap, static timing,
point
gap/dwell angle, and set the jets to the same number of flats on both carbs
(how many, I don't know). When you do all of this, you should be aware of
whether or not you have the distributor vacuum timing advance disabled or
functioning, and you should make certain that the little weights in the
distributor for centrifugal advance are lubed and able to swing freely. The
weights change your timing curve and ignition timing depending on the speed
of your engine. Usually, when you use a timing light, the vacuum advance is
disabled and the engine rpms are kept low enough that the centrifugal
weights
are not activated and changing the timing. The engine speed at which you
adjust the timing using a timing light may or may NOT be the same as the
basic idle speed of your engine.
2. Mixture...Regardless of the amount of air flowing through the carb, the
ratio of air to fuel must be within a certain range. I would think that a
tool like a Gunson Colortune sparkplug thingamajig is the rational way to go
to get the mixture pretty close. Once you're going down the road, you can
check the color of the sparkplugs to see if any cylinders are rich or lean.
I would think that the mixture (air/fuel ratio) would have to be correct and
pretty much the same in each carb before you fine tune the balance, timing,
or idle speed.
3. Balancing...This has to do with balancing out the volume of air flowing
through each of the two carbs in a given time at a given engine speed. I
guess the real point is to have all four cylinders firing more or less
evenly
because they are getting about the same amount of fuel-air mixture. Loosen
the link between the carbs before attempting to balance. If the carbs are
good, putting the jets to the same setting should result in a pretty well
balanced situation. Mixture-wise, this should make them pretty much the same
be it rich, lean or just right. You can use a carb balancing tool, listen to
a tube for equivalent hissing sound, or whatever. Regardless of what these
techniques tell you, the bottom line is that the engine must run smoothly.
To
my way of thinking, balancing the carbs is really a rather fine adjustment
to
compensate for minor manufacturing differences between two carbs that are
both basically within spec and with the same needles and jets. You adjust
the
jets to get the correct mixture, then adjust the basic reference throttle
opening of each carb separately to achieve balance between the carbs, lock
the linkage between the carbs to keep them the same in relation to each
other, and then set the idle speed using the adjustment that adjusts both
carbs as one unit.
3. Timing...Haven't we established before on this list that there isn't all
that much difference between 92 octane unleaded on the current octane rating
scheme and 100 octane on the old P6-era scheme? I would think the best thing
to do without a rolling road would be to ballpark it and then adjust the
timing at the distributor until you just eliminate the pinging under load.
No
matter what numbers you adjust to, you still have to get rid of the
pre-detonation under load, and adjusting much beyond that just reduces power
without gaining anything. You may then have to go back and fine tune your
idle speed, but your mixture and carb balance don't need to be readjusted.
So, what did I leave out and what mistakes have I made in this general
description?
Glen
--
~ Glen Wilson ~
http://stores.ebay.com/EasyAuctionServicesPA
Adding new stock daily...
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 11:01:25 +1000
From: Paul Smith <Paul.Smith at auroraenergy.com.au>
Subject: RE: [ROVERNET - UK] TC CARB TUNE
To: "'rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com'" <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
Message-ID:
<9409B494C2CED611BADF00508B948EF813BB1F0A at excha01.auroraenergy.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
You forgot to mention to keep your cat out of the carburettor work area.
Nerm walked around the engine bay of the Passat (Rabbit in US?) I had
(needed a wagon, thus non Rover) while I was cleaning the carb. Result: it
ran terribly; had to pull carb apart Again to find a black hair somehow
lodged in the idle circuit.
Nerm was black...
PVS
So, what did I leave out and what mistakes have I made in this general
description?
Glen
--
~ Glen Wilson ~
http://stores.ebay.com/EasyAuctionServicesPA
Adding new stock daily...
_______________________________________________
rovernet mailing list
rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the bottom and follow
instructions:
http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
Back-up list and photos at:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 21:02:08 -0400
From: Glen Wilson <glenwilson at cavtel.net>
Subject: [ROVERNET - UK] eBay Stores with Rover bits...
To: rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
Message-ID: <200607022102.08394.glenwilson at cavtel.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I've now set up an eBay store, and I have a few Rover parts to move through
there, but I am small potatoes and will run out of Rover bits to sell in a
month or two.
What about some of you people who sell there regularly? I know James Dean
has
an eBay store, and I thought Pierre sold Rover parts on eBay. I'm not aware
that Dermot has a web presence. If anyone out there has a place online where
they regularly sell Rover bits, you might want to let us know so that we can
include a link on the new RSTCA Part Supplier web page that we're finishing
up. You can just send the info to the list or send it to me off-list at
glenwilson at cavtel.net
Glen
--
~ Glen Wilson ~
http://stores.ebay.com/EasyAuctionServicesPA
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 09:38:45 +0800
From: Drew Egginton <drew at pitstop.net.au>
Subject: [ROVERNET - UK] Re: CKD Rovers
To: rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
Message-ID: <44A87525.8010109 at pitstop.net.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Series II P6B 3500 automatics for the Australian & NZ market were built
in Nelson, NZ from c1971 to c1976, whereas the 3500S we received here
downunder came all the way from Solihull. The NZ CKD cars were shipped
from the UK minus their roof structures to save space and had a bit of
NZ content like glass, carpets etc.
I believe a handful of P4s were assembled in Australia the late 1950s to
see if this was viable, but does any one else know any more about these?
Andrew Egginton
W Australia
John Burkhard wrote:
> Did The Rover Co. Ltd. really build saloons in New Zealand, Australia
> or South Africa? Or were those a KDK operation?
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kent Kinard" <kkinard at wcc.net>
> To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 9:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] RE: Rover news
>
>
>> So Glen,
>> What is a "real" Rover? Is a Jensen not a Jensen when it has an
>> engine from Austin, or Chrysler or Lotus?
>> Is a Marcos not a Marcos if it has a Ford, or Volvo or Rover engine?
>> Is a Morgan not a Morgan if it has a Triumph or BMW engine?
>> Is a Rover not a Rover if it has a Honda or Buick or VM engine? Is
>> it once again spring when the sap rises and Roverites debate the
>> question of the ages in its latest iteration? Is a Rover a Rover if
>> it is built in China? Were New Zealand and South African built
>> Rovers any less a Rover?
>>
>> And so it begins....again....
>>
>> Roverevolutionarily,
>> Kent K.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 12:20:09 -0400
>> Glen Wilson <glenwilson at cavtel.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Friday 30 June 2006 12:03, Eric Russell wrote:
>>>
>>>> Now would that be the old Rover 75 or the NEW Rover
>>>> 75?
>>>>
>>>> from "died in the wool" P6 owner with no idea about
>>>> any 75
>>>>
>>>
>>> That would be an "old" 75 which was a REAL Rover...
>>>
>>> Oh, my God! Did I click...SEND?!?!?!?!
>>>
>>> (flames)
>>>
>>> ;-)
>>>
>>> Glen
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> rovernet mailing list
>>> rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the bottom and follow
>>> instructions:
>>> http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
>>> Back-up list and photos at:
>>> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> rovernet mailing list
>> rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the bottom and follow
>> instructions:
>> http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
>> Back-up list and photos at:
>> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> rovernet mailing list
> rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the bottom and follow
> instructions:
> http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
> Back-up list and photos at:
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
>
>
--
The Pitstop Bookshop
33 King Street
PERTH, Western Australia 6000
website: www.pitstop.net.au e-mail: info at pitstop.net.au
(08) 9322 5544 ph +61 8 9322 5544 (International)
(08) 9322 5535 fax +61 8 9322 5535 (International)
1800 622 422 freecall
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
rovernet mailing list
rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
To unsubscribe, go to this web page, scroll to the bottom, and follow
instructions:
http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
Back-up list and photos at:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
End of rovernet Digest, Vol 44, Issue 4
***************************************
More information about the rovernet
mailing list