[ROVERNET - UK] Tuning TC carbs
Fritz Rauschenberg
wfritz at mindspring.com
Mon Jul 3 11:31:01 BST 2006
Dirk,
Great idea! I will use that next time. In the mean time, I must replace the
clutch. I got advice from Ruth on how-to without pulling the engine. Any
words of wisdom on that job?
Fritz Rauschenberg
> [Original Message]
> From: Dirk Burrowes <dirk at vy-tek.com>
> To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
> Date: 7/3/2006 12:13:47 AM
> Subject: [ROVERNET - UK] Tuning TC carbs
>
> Hi Larry,
>
> I recently rebuilt my carbs on my TC and did the following to balance
them.
>
> 1) Unscrew the top from the suction chamber and remove damper rod on both
> carbs.
>
> 2) Use a small rod or sheet metal stick or even 2 identical pencils and
push
> them so they are level with one another. 3) Fix a piece of tape around
each
> rod/stick fold back on itself and leave a flag protruding off to the side.
>
> 4) Start the car and let it idle 600 to 800 rpm
>
> Now watch each stick to see if the flags rise and fall as you rev the
engine
> equally. Adjust each carb until they rise and fall together.
>
> I have the carb setting tool and thought I was cool showing it off to a
old
> time British car mechanic ( who worked on Rovers in the 70s ) He scoffed
and
> showed the method described above and we were done in 5 minutes and the
car
> runs great.
>
> I found out later that there is a SU carb tool kit that includes balancing
> rods and jet tools. I found it new on EBay for $20.
>
> Give it a try
>
> Dirk
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rovernet-bounces at lyris.ccdata.com
> [mailto:rovernet-bounces at lyris.ccdata.com] On Behalf Of
> rovernet-request at lyris.ccdata.com
> Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 9:40 PM
> To: rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> Subject: rovernet Digest, Vol 44, Issue 4
>
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> [ROVERNET-UK]
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. TC CARB TUNE (Larry)
> 2. Re: TC CARB TUNE (Brooks)
> 3. Re: I've lost my balls!!!!!! (Eric Russell)
> 4. Re: TC CARB TUNE (Eric Russell)
> 5. Re: TC CARB TUNE (Slatskars)
> 6. Re: TC CARB TUNE (Glen Wilson)
> 7. RE: TC CARB TUNE (Paul Smith)
> 8. eBay Stores with Rover bits... (Glen Wilson)
> 9. Re: CKD Rovers (Drew Egginton)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 06:36:38 -0600
> From: "Larry" <lewill at ctcweb.net>
> Subject: [ROVERNET - UK] TC CARB TUNE
> To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
> Message-ID: <001701c69dd4$2a8d9ff0$8c48e842 at hewlett2n8fn74>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> I am trying to tune the carbs on a TC without the balancer that is talked
> about in the manual. With 92 octane gas and at what idle RPM's would one
> set the timing? Any and all suggestions would be helpful. Thanks in
advance.
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 10:06:38 -0300
> From: "Brooks" <restore at nbnet.nb.ca>
> Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] TC CARB TUNE
> To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
> Message-ID: <000c01c69dd8$5aa16060$0100a8c0 at DENNIS>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=response
>
> Some people have used a strip of paper hung in front of the
openings...equal
>
> suction ...means equal balance. Enjoy :)
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry" <lewill at ctcweb.net>
> To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
> Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 9:36 AM
> Subject: [ROVERNET - UK] TC CARB TUNE
>
>
> >I am trying to tune the carbs on a TC without the balancer that is
talked
> >about in the manual. With 92 octane gas and at what idle RPM's would
one
> >set the timing? Any and all suggestions would be helpful. Thanks in
> >advance. Larry
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > rovernet mailing list
> > rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the bottom and follow
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> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 08:37:33 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Eric Russell <p6rovers at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] I've lost my balls!!!!!!
> To: rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> Message-ID: <20060702153733.58021.qmail at web34315.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> How about a crawler for sliding under the car? Do the
> wheels have balls bearings sitting in a tray above
> each wheel?
>
> Eroc
>
>
> --- Paul Smith <vmitps at netspace.net.au> wrote:
>
> > Did you use a trolley jack that has them in the
> > swivels?
> > Also the size of ball is handy.
> >
> > PVS
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lance La Certe" <lacpsyd at earthlink.net>
> > To: "Rovernet" <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 1:51 PM
> > Subject: [ROVERNET - UK] I've lost my balls!!!!!!
> >
> >
> > > I suspect that I'm overly paranoid, but am sure
> > that the cognoscenti of
> > the
> > > Rovernetters may be able to help.
> > >
> > > I have recently pulled the engine and tranny,
> > along with EVERYTHING else
> > > in the engine bay (except the power steering box
> > and linkage). I have
> > > completely painted the engine bay and as I wait
> > for the engine to be
> > > rebuilt I am cleaning, refurbishing everything
> > under the hood----
> > >
> > > HERE'S THE PROBLEM---- As I have labeled and
> > bagged all the various parts
> > I
> > > have come upon 3 BALL BEARINGS on the garage
> > floor. It is possibly, but
> > > I'm not so sure how likely, that they were there
> > before. Does anyone know
> > > if ball bearings are part of any assemblage, so
> > that when I removed it
> > from
> > > the engine bay they just fell out?????
> > >
> > > I'm convinced I'm going to get the whole front of
> > the car back together
> > and
> > > something is going to be terribly wrong because of
> > these balls bearings.
> > >
> > > Any help would be appreciated..
> > >
> > >
> > > Lance La Certe, Denver, '70 'Federal' 3500S
> > > lacpsyd at earthlink.net
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > bottom and follow
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> > >
> > >
> > > --
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> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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> > >
> > >
> >
> >
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> >
>
>
> Webmaster:
> The Rover Car Club of Canada - www.roverclub.ca
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 08:46:53 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Eric Russell <p6rovers at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] TC CARB TUNE
> To: rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> Message-ID: <20060702154654.85632.qmail at web34302.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Larry,
> The new carbs would idle at about 850 to 900 with 100
> octane gas.
>
> (I'm remembering Bob Newhart's "Defusing a Bomb"
> comedy line here.....
> <http://monologues.co.uk/Bob_Newhart/Defusing_a_Bomb.htm>).
> ['This plate should be removed with an LT5
> screwdriver with a plastic handle and a de-magnetised
> tip'... Oh, you don't have one, huh?...
> Augh!... use a coin then, Willard! ]
>
> You don't have new carbs or 100 octane gas. Raise the
> idle target to 1000 rpm but be careful when shifting
> into reverse.
>
> A good friend showed be how to use a piece of rubber
> pipe (old rad hose?) to listen to the hiss of air at
> each carb. A higher "hiss" noise meant greater vacuum
> so we'd adjust the idle screw up or down depending on
> which carb we were trying to match.
>
> Eric
>
>
> --- Larry <lewill at ctcweb.net> wrote:
>
> > I am trying to tune the carbs on a TC without the
> > balancer that is talked
> > about in the manual. With 92 octane gas and at what
> > idle RPM's would one
> > set the timing? Any and all suggestions would be
> > helpful. Thanks in advance.
> > Larry
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > rovernet mailing list
> > rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the
> > bottom and follow instructions:
> > http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
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> > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
> >
>
>
> Webmaster:
> The Rover Car Club of Canada - www.roverclub.ca
>
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 09:13:12 -0700
> From: "Slatskars" <slatskars at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] TC CARB TUNE
> To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
> Message-ID: <001d01c69df2$6acc7af0$6401a8c0 at FAMILYROOM>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=response
>
> Take a short piece (about 24 inches) of 1/4" hose, such as vacuum line
or
> fuel line. Put one end in your ear (either one) place the other end in
the
> opening of the carb about 1/4". Use your thumb nail as a gauge. You will
be
> able to hear the air flow and compare them. You can get very close this
way.
>
> This is what we did back in the late 50's before we had unisyns. Note:
You
> disconnect the connecting linkage between the carbs before balancing
them.
> Then reconnect the linkage and set the idle speed. You could also use a
> stethoscope if you have one. Unisyns are not terribly expensive, about
$20.
>
> Slats
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry" <lewill at ctcweb.net>
> To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
> Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 5:36 AM
> Subject: [ROVERNET - UK] TC CARB TUNE
>
>
> >I am trying to tune the carbs on a TC without the balancer that is
talked
> >about in the manual. With 92 octane gas and at what idle RPM's would
one
> >set the timing? Any and all suggestions would be helpful. Thanks in
> >advance. Larry
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > rovernet mailing list
> > rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the bottom and follow
> > instructions:
> > http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
> > Back-up list and photos at:
> > http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 20:43:44 -0400
> From: Glen Wilson <glenwilson at cavtel.net>
> Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] TC CARB TUNE
> To: rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> Message-ID: <200607022043.44921.glenwilson at cavtel.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> (Eric, 1000 rpm sounds awfully high for a Rover...)
>
> Larry's question mixes up about three or four different issues. This is
the
> kind of stuff that drives me crazy about dual-SU setups because most of
the
> procedures and advice go out the window right at the beginning if the
carbs
> are not in tip top shape. Any leaks or worn parts can mess it all up.
>
> A calibration procedure must be broken down and performed in a number of
> steps
> in a particular order because several of the adjustments are interactive
and
>
> affect each other. Sometimes when you are dealing with two adjustments,
one
> will change the other but not vice versa. Therefore you have to procede
so
> that when you have one setting adjusted properly, you don't immediately
> screw
> it up when you make the next adjustment.
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong in the following because I am not the guru. This
is
> a
> general conceptual description written as sort of an intellectual exercise
> to
> refresh my understanding.
>
> 1. Basics...Get in the ballpark by setting the plug gap, static timing,
> point
> gap/dwell angle, and set the jets to the same number of flats on both
carbs
> (how many, I don't know). When you do all of this, you should be aware of
> whether or not you have the distributor vacuum timing advance disabled or
> functioning, and you should make certain that the little weights in the
> distributor for centrifugal advance are lubed and able to swing freely.
The
> weights change your timing curve and ignition timing depending on the
speed
> of your engine. Usually, when you use a timing light, the vacuum advance
is
> disabled and the engine rpms are kept low enough that the centrifugal
> weights
> are not activated and changing the timing. The engine speed at which you
> adjust the timing using a timing light may or may NOT be the same as the
> basic idle speed of your engine.
>
> 2. Mixture...Regardless of the amount of air flowing through the carb,
the
> ratio of air to fuel must be within a certain range. I would think that a
> tool like a Gunson Colortune sparkplug thingamajig is the rational way to
go
>
> to get the mixture pretty close. Once you're going down the road, you can
> check the color of the sparkplugs to see if any cylinders are rich or
lean.
> I would think that the mixture (air/fuel ratio) would have to be correct
and
>
> pretty much the same in each carb before you fine tune the balance,
timing,
> or idle speed.
>
> 3. Balancing...This has to do with balancing out the volume of air
flowing
> through each of the two carbs in a given time at a given engine speed. I
> guess the real point is to have all four cylinders firing more or less
> evenly
> because they are getting about the same amount of fuel-air mixture.
Loosen
> the link between the carbs before attempting to balance. If the carbs are
> good, putting the jets to the same setting should result in a pretty well
> balanced situation. Mixture-wise, this should make them pretty much the
same
>
> be it rich, lean or just right. You can use a carb balancing tool, listen
to
>
> a tube for equivalent hissing sound, or whatever. Regardless of what
these
> techniques tell you, the bottom line is that the engine must run smoothly.
> To
> my way of thinking, balancing the carbs is really a rather fine adjustment
> to
> compensate for minor manufacturing differences between two carbs that are
> both basically within spec and with the same needles and jets. You adjust
> the
> jets to get the correct mixture, then adjust the basic reference throttle
> opening of each carb separately to achieve balance between the carbs,
lock
> the linkage between the carbs to keep them the same in relation to each
> other, and then set the idle speed using the adjustment that adjusts both
> carbs as one unit.
>
> 3. Timing...Haven't we established before on this list that there isn't
all
> that much difference between 92 octane unleaded on the current octane
rating
>
> scheme and 100 octane on the old P6-era scheme? I would think the best
thing
>
> to do without a rolling road would be to ballpark it and then adjust the
> timing at the distributor until you just eliminate the pinging under load.
> No
> matter what numbers you adjust to, you still have to get rid of the
> pre-detonation under load, and adjusting much beyond that just reduces
power
>
> without gaining anything. You may then have to go back and fine tune your
> idle speed, but your mixture and carb balance don't need to be readjusted.
>
> So, what did I leave out and what mistakes have I made in this general
> description?
>
> Glen
> --
> ~ Glen Wilson ~
> http://stores.ebay.com/EasyAuctionServicesPA
> Adding new stock daily...
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 11:01:25 +1000
> From: Paul Smith <Paul.Smith at auroraenergy.com.au>
> Subject: RE: [ROVERNET - UK] TC CARB TUNE
> To: "'rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com'" <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
> Message-ID:
>
> <9409B494C2CED611BADF00508B948EF813BB1F0A at excha01.auroraenergy.com.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> You forgot to mention to keep your cat out of the carburettor work area.
> Nerm walked around the engine bay of the Passat (Rabbit in US?) I had
> (needed a wagon, thus non Rover) while I was cleaning the carb. Result:
it
> ran terribly; had to pull carb apart Again to find a black hair somehow
> lodged in the idle circuit.
> Nerm was black...
>
> PVS
>
> So, what did I leave out and what mistakes have I made in this general
> description?
>
> Glen
> --
> ~ Glen Wilson ~
> http://stores.ebay.com/EasyAuctionServicesPA
> Adding new stock daily...
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the bottom and follow
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>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 21:02:08 -0400
> From: Glen Wilson <glenwilson at cavtel.net>
> Subject: [ROVERNET - UK] eBay Stores with Rover bits...
> To: rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> Message-ID: <200607022102.08394.glenwilson at cavtel.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I've now set up an eBay store, and I have a few Rover parts to move
through
> there, but I am small potatoes and will run out of Rover bits to sell in
a
> month or two.
>
> What about some of you people who sell there regularly? I know James Dean
> has
> an eBay store, and I thought Pierre sold Rover parts on eBay. I'm not
aware
> that Dermot has a web presence. If anyone out there has a place online
where
>
> they regularly sell Rover bits, you might want to let us know so that we
can
>
> include a link on the new RSTCA Part Supplier web page that we're
finishing
> up. You can just send the info to the list or send it to me off-list at
> glenwilson at cavtel.net
>
> Glen
> --
> ~ Glen Wilson ~
> http://stores.ebay.com/EasyAuctionServicesPA
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 09:38:45 +0800
> From: Drew Egginton <drew at pitstop.net.au>
> Subject: [ROVERNET - UK] Re: CKD Rovers
> To: rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> Message-ID: <44A87525.8010109 at pitstop.net.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Series II P6B 3500 automatics for the Australian & NZ market were built
> in Nelson, NZ from c1971 to c1976, whereas the 3500S we received here
> downunder came all the way from Solihull. The NZ CKD cars were shipped
> from the UK minus their roof structures to save space and had a bit of
> NZ content like glass, carpets etc.
>
> I believe a handful of P4s were assembled in Australia the late 1950s to
> see if this was viable, but does any one else know any more about these?
>
> Andrew Egginton
> W Australia
>
> John Burkhard wrote:
>
> > Did The Rover Co. Ltd. really build saloons in New Zealand, Australia
> > or South Africa? Or were those a KDK operation?
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kent Kinard" <kkinard at wcc.net>
> > To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
> > Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 9:44 AM
> > Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] RE: Rover news
> >
> >
> >> So Glen,
> >> What is a "real" Rover? Is a Jensen not a Jensen when it has an
> >> engine from Austin, or Chrysler or Lotus?
> >> Is a Marcos not a Marcos if it has a Ford, or Volvo or Rover engine?
> >> Is a Morgan not a Morgan if it has a Triumph or BMW engine?
> >> Is a Rover not a Rover if it has a Honda or Buick or VM engine? Is
> >> it once again spring when the sap rises and Roverites debate the
> >> question of the ages in its latest iteration? Is a Rover a Rover if
> >> it is built in China? Were New Zealand and South African built
> >> Rovers any less a Rover?
> >>
> >> And so it begins....again....
> >>
> >> Roverevolutionarily,
> >> Kent K.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 12:20:09 -0400
> >> Glen Wilson <glenwilson at cavtel.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Friday 30 June 2006 12:03, Eric Russell wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Now would that be the old Rover 75 or the NEW Rover
> >>>> 75?
> >>>>
> >>>> from "died in the wool" P6 owner with no idea about
> >>>> any 75
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> That would be an "old" 75 which was a REAL Rover...
> >>>
> >>> Oh, my God! Did I click...SEND?!?!?!?!
> >>>
> >>> (flames)
> >>>
> >>> ;-)
> >>>
> >>> Glen
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> rovernet mailing list
> >>> rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> >>> To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the bottom and follow
> >>> instructions:
> >>> http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
> >>> Back-up list and photos at:
> >>> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> rovernet mailing list
> >> rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> >> To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the bottom and follow
> >> instructions:
> >> http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
> >> Back-up list and photos at:
> >> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > rovernet mailing list
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> > To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the bottom and follow
> > instructions:
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> >
> >
>
> --
> The Pitstop Bookshop
> 33 King Street
> PERTH, Western Australia 6000
> website: www.pitstop.net.au e-mail: info at pitstop.net.au
> (08) 9322 5544 ph +61 8 9322 5544 (International)
> (08) 9322 5535 fax +61 8 9322 5535 (International)
> 1800 622 422 freecall
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> End of rovernet Digest, Vol 44, Issue 4
> ***************************************
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