[ROVERNET - UK] Ben,s "weak" Rover
Alice and Ian Potts
ianalice at shaw.ca
Sat Sep 30 03:29:04 BST 2006
Not only the spark timing, but also the VALVE timing! Ian
----- Original Message -----
From: <rovernet-request at lyris.ccdata.com>
To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 3:20 PM
Subject: rovernet Digest, Vol 46, Issue 53
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> [ROVERNET-UK]
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: tough nut (David Read)
> 2. Re: Calling Rovernet Brain trust!!! (Ben Rodgers)
> 3. Re: tough nut (and more brake woes) (peter king)
> 4. Re: Calling Rovernet Brain trust!!! (Brooks)
> 5. Re: tough nut (and more brake woes) (Vern Klukas)
> 6. PETER Re: [ROVERNET - UK] tough nut (and more brake woes)
> (Glen Wilson)
> 7. RE: Calling Rovernet Brain trust!!! (Paul Smith)
> 8. Re: Calling Rovernet Brain trust!!! (Slatskars)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 00:32:56 +0930
> From: David Read <defender110 at ozemail.com.au>
> Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] tough nut
> To: rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> Message-ID: <451BE420.9070306 at ozemail.com.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> As an addendum to Gavin's suggestion, have you tried to use a 6 point
> socket as they also give side grip, not just corners as a 12 point does?
>
> Cheers
> Dave
> South Oz
>
> Gavin.Walker at csiro.au wrote:
>> Peter,
>> I'd suggest going to repco and getting a "Metrinch" socket the right
>> size. If you've only taken off the corners and it's not completely
>> round the socket should work. Metrinch sockts have lumps on the inside
>> that drive off the flanks and not the tips of the hex.
>>
>> If that fails then file two parallel flats in it and use a big open
>> ended spanner.
>>
>> Gavin Walker
>> Canberra, Australia
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:07:24 -0300
> From: "Ben Rodgers" <irishrover at netscape.ca>
> Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] Calling Rovernet Brain trust!!!
> To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
> Message-ID: <000001c6e329$13c21a90$92c63042 at yourc8bh3jaglt>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi Guys
> I need help! The Rover has me stumped (1967 P5 Mk3 Std )
> The car starts and idles okay with full choke on , but once underway I can
> hardly get out of second gear and continue to need choke. When I rev it
> struggles and coughs back thru carb, and the engine dies, that indicates a
> weak mixture, its also running on the hot side. At first it appeared to be
> the mixture, too rich because of choke but I really believe its too much
> air, (it coughs thru the carb). I have checked the carb, gas lines, air
> connections etc, nothing obviously wrong. I decided it was not getting
> enough gas and as everything checked out in the engine bay. I started at
> the
> source, the gas tank, removed cleaned and sealed inside, replaced the dual
> Lucas pumps with a single after market pump supplied by Ruth at ABC. Took
> the car for a drive of about four miles it worked fair but not just right.
> Stopped to filled up with gas then tried to start the car for return
> journey, would barely idle and stalled when I tried to move. I noticed
> that
> the distributor was very hot, heat shield wasn't quite in place (now
> corrected). I waited while everything cooled and managed to drive home
> very
> gently. Next I decided the petronix unit was cooked so replaced with
> points,
> no improvement, still started easy and idled but no revs. I decided next
> the
> coil, the wire was a bit green so replaced that, no improvement. I have to
> date done the following - cleaned gas tank. replaced fuel pump. checked
> everything from tank to engine (several times) checked carb float level,
> checked all air connections. check coil and changed coil wire. cleaned and
> re-gapped plugs. checked bolts on intake manifold. played with carb
> mixture
> and air screw. I'm stumped, the problem seems to be that the engine is
> running too weak, getting too much air, but where from. What else could it
> be??. What am I missing here???? I need the help of the Rovernet Brain
> Trust
> on this one please please please.
> Regards Ben
> Sitting in my
> coracle stumped!
>
>
> I have replaced the exhaust valves and had cylinder head cleaned and
> planed
> approx two years ago, not many miles on car since.
>
>
>
>
>
> FREDERICK (BEN) RODGERS
> born in Belfast, Northern Ireland,
> Author of "lily and me" a great book and a great read .
> Order on line at amazon.com. Book # ISBN1-55430-019-3
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:18:49 -0400
> From: peter king <peter at king-co.com>
> Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] tough nut (and more brake woes)
> To: rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> Message-ID: <10C94D10-71AB-4B56-879C-AD2B10AC5190 at king-co.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> Thanks to all for your replies. I finally managed to get the nasty
> job done, using an impact tool and a modified socket, 1/16 smaller
> than the nut and pounded onto it. I broke the impact tool, but it did
> enough to allow me to swap my torque wrench onto the socket and get
> the nut to turn. Hoorah!! I finished the job this morning and I'm
> back on the road. Good thing, because the '63 P5's brakes just went
> south. I suspect the master failed, because the fluid drained and is
> nowhere to be seen, and when I started the car, a huge plume of white
> smoke poured out. My guess is that the fluid has been sucked into the
> head through the vacuum line. Does this sound right to you?
>
> Time for another rebuild....
>
> pk
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:48:40 -0300
> From: "Brooks" <restore at nbnet.nb.ca>
> Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] Calling Rovernet Brain trust!!!
> To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
> Message-ID: <000801c6e32e$b725daf0$0100a8c0 at DENNIS>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hi Ben...
>
> It sounds like you have covered almost every likley area...I can only add
> to your list of suspects...have you tried checking the volume of gas that
> is
> entering the carb ?? also like you say it does sound a lot like it may be
> getting air somewhere...perhaps the carb gasket ??..just a couple of ideas
> that may not even apply..but who knows it looks like youv'e been going
> after
> the primarary sources of troubles.
>
> Good luck..
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ben Rodgers" <irishrover at netscape.ca>
> To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
> Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 3:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] Calling Rovernet Brain trust!!!
>
>
>> Hi Guys
>> I need help! The Rover has me stumped (1967 P5 Mk3 Std )
>> The car starts and idles okay with full choke on , but once underway I
>> can
>> hardly get out of second gear and continue to need choke. When I rev it
>> struggles and coughs back thru carb, and the engine dies, that indicates
>> a
>> weak mixture, its also running on the hot side. At first it appeared to
>> be
>> the mixture, too rich because of choke but I really believe its too much
>> air, (it coughs thru the carb). I have checked the carb, gas lines, air
>> connections etc, nothing obviously wrong. I decided it was not getting
>> enough gas and as everything checked out in the engine bay. I started at
>> the
>> source, the gas tank, removed cleaned and sealed inside, replaced the
>> dual
>> Lucas pumps with a single after market pump supplied by Ruth at ABC. Took
>> the car for a drive of about four miles it worked fair but not just
>> right.
>> Stopped to filled up with gas then tried to start the car for return
>> journey, would barely idle and stalled when I tried to move. I noticed
>> that
>> the distributor was very hot, heat shield wasn't quite in place (now
>> corrected). I waited while everything cooled and managed to drive home
>> very
>> gently. Next I decided the petronix unit was cooked so replaced with
>> points,
>> no improvement, still started easy and idled but no revs. I decided next
>> the
>> coil, the wire was a bit green so replaced that, no improvement. I have
>> to
>> date done the following - cleaned gas tank. replaced fuel pump. checked
>> everything from tank to engine (several times) checked carb float level,
>> checked all air connections. check coil and changed coil wire. cleaned
>> and
>> re-gapped plugs. checked bolts on intake manifold. played with carb
>> mixture
>> and air screw. I'm stumped, the problem seems to be that the engine is
>> running too weak, getting too much air, but where from. What else could
>> it
>> be??. What am I missing here???? I need the help of the Rovernet Brain
>> Trust
>> on this one please please please.
>> Regards Ben
>> Sitting in my
>> coracle stumped!
>>
>>
>> I have replaced the exhaust valves and had cylinder head cleaned and
>> planed
>> approx two years ago, not many miles on car since.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> FREDERICK (BEN) RODGERS
>> born in Belfast, Northern Ireland,
>> Author of "lily and me" a great book and a great read .
>> Order on line at amazon.com. Book # ISBN1-55430-019-3
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> rovernet mailing list
>> rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the bottom and follow
>> instructions:
>> http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
>> Back-up list and photos at:
>> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.9/458 - Release Date:
>> 27/09/2006
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 11:53:19 -0700
> From: Vern Klukas <vern at inkspotco.com>
> Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] tough nut (and more brake woes)
> To: rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> Message-ID: <a06230900c141ca1e3e6d@[192.168.1.100]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>
> Brake booster rear seal failure, from the sounds of it. Symptoms are
> exactly correct.
>
> Yours
> Vern
>
>
>
>>Thanks to all for your replies. I finally managed to get the nasty
>>job done, using an impact tool and a modified socket, 1/16 smaller
>>than the nut and pounded onto it. I broke the impact tool, but it
>>did enough to allow me to swap my torque wrench onto the socket and
>>get the nut to turn. Hoorah!! I finished the job this morning and
>>I'm back on the road. Good thing, because the '63 P5's brakes just
>>went south. I suspect the master failed, because the fluid drained
>>and is nowhere to be seen, and when I started the car, a huge plume
>>of white smoke poured out. My guess is that the fluid has been
>>sucked into the head through the vacuum line. Does this sound right
>>to you?
>>
>>Time for another rebuild....
>>
>>pk
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>rovernet mailing list
>>rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
>>To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the bottom and follow
>>instructions:
>>http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
>>Back-up list and photos at:
>>http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
>
>
> --
> Vern Klukas I'm a little . . .
> Inkspot Type & Design
> vern at inkspotco.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 17:17:22 -0400
> From: Glen Wilson <rovercar at comcast.net>
> Subject: PETER Re: [ROVERNET - UK] tough nut (and more brake woes)
> To: rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> Message-ID: <451C3BE2.9020301 at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> peter king wrote:
>> Thanks to all for your replies. I finally managed to get the nasty job
>> done, using an impact tool and a modified socket, 1/16 smaller than
>> the nut and pounded onto it. I broke the impact tool, but it did
>> enough to allow me to swap my torque wrench onto the socket and get
>> the nut to turn. Hoorah!! I finished the job this morning and I'm back
>> on the road. Good thing, because the '63 P5's brakes just went south.
>> I suspect the master failed, because the fluid drained and is nowhere
>> to be seen, and when I started the car, a huge plume of white smoke
>> poured out. My guess is that the fluid has been sucked into the head
>> through the vacuum line. Does this sound right to you?
> Sounds like a complete engine melt down precipitated by head gasket
> failure and followed by extensive interocitor-induced failures
> throughout the engine. I can tow that heap off of your property for a
> small fee, and you won't have to worry about it any more. I would
> definitely NOT put any more time or money into it, if I were you. I'm
> just glad that I caught you in the nick of time before you wasted any
> more resources on it. I'll send the truck round to pick it up.
>
> Whew! Close one!
>
> Glen
>
> ;-)
>
> Actually, that's exactly what 1963 P4 did when the servo failed...
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interocitor
>
> http://www.shipbrook.com/jeff/interocitor/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 08:03:35 +1000
> From: "Paul Smith" <Paul.Smith at auroraenergy.com.au>
> Subject: RE: [ROVERNET - UK] Calling Rovernet Brain trust!!!
> To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
> Message-ID:
> <FBD1E865E6916B4B958ADFD21F42830C699DAB at corpexch1.corp.local>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> 1. How much choke? A bit only? If it is only a bit at low revs, suspect
> the butterfly shaft; but this sounds more comprehensive.
> 2. Fuel flow is suspect. Personally I like SU pumps, just fit a diode to
> stop the points burning and they go forever. I'd retry one for the
> exercise of proving the flow; see how quick a litre fills up with each
> pump.
> 3. Look at swapping a coil in too, they can give a weak spark, and check
> the ign timing as way advanced can do what you said, particularly hot
> running.
>
> PVS
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rovernet-bounces at lyris.ccdata.com
> [mailto:rovernet-bounces at lyris.ccdata.com]On Behalf Of Ben Rodgers
> Sent: Friday, 29 September 2006 4:07 am
> To: rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] Calling Rovernet Brain trust!!!
>
>
> Hi Guys
> I need help! The Rover has me stumped (1967 P5 Mk3 Std )
> The car starts and idles okay with full choke on , but once underway I can
> hardly get out of second gear and continue to need choke. When I rev it
> struggles and coughs back thru carb, and the engine dies, that indicates a
> weak mixture, its also running on the hot side. At first it appeared to be
> the mixture, too rich because of choke but I really believe its too much
> air, (it coughs thru the carb). I have checked the carb, gas lines, air
> connections etc, nothing obviously wrong. I decided it was not getting
> enough gas and as everything checked out in the engine bay. I started at
> the
> source, the gas tank, removed cleaned and sealed inside, replaced the dual
> Lucas pumps with a single after market pump supplied by Ruth at ABC. Took
> the car for a drive of about four miles it worked fair but not just right.
> Stopped to filled up with gas then tried to start the car for return
> journey, would barely idle and stalled when I tried to move. I noticed
> that
> the distributor was very hot, heat shield wasn't quite in place (now
> corrected). I waited while everything cooled and managed to drive home
> very
> gently. Next I decided the petronix unit was cooked so replaced with
> points,
> no improvement, still started easy and idled but no revs. I decided next
> the
> coil, the wire was a bit green so replaced that, no improvement. I have to
> date done the following - cleaned gas tank. replaced fuel pump. checked
> everything from tank to engine (several times) checked carb float level,
> checked all air connections. check coil and changed coil wire. cleaned and
> re-gapped plugs. checked bolts on intake manifold. played with carb
> mixture
> and air screw. I'm stumped, the problem seems to be that the engine is
> running too weak, getting too much air, but where from. What else could it
> be??. What am I missing here???? I need the help of the Rovernet Brain
> Trust
> on this one please please please.
> Regards Ben
> Sitting in my
> coracle stumped!
>
>
> I have replaced the exhaust valves and had cylinder head cleaned and
> planed
> approx two years ago, not many miles on car since.
>
>
>
>
>
> FREDERICK (BEN) RODGERS
> born in Belfast, Northern Ireland,
> Author of "lily and me" a great book and a great read .
> Order on line at amazon.com. Book # ISBN1-55430-019-3
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> rovernet mailing list
> rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the bottom and follow
> instructions:
> http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
> Back-up list and photos at:
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:19:53 -0700
> From: "Slatskars" <slatskars at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] Calling Rovernet Brain trust!!!
> To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
> Message-ID: <006a01c6e34c$3966dce0$6401a8c0 at FAMILYROOM>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Ben,
>
> Did you check the oil level in the carb? It needs the resistance in order
> to
> function as an accelerator pump. Starting and running fine at idle, but
> backfiring through the carb on acceleration is an old symptom of a bad
> condenser (capacitor). You might try replacing just that or going back to
> the Pertronix.
>
> I agree with Paul about the SU fuel pumps. I just fired my P-5 off today
> after a couple of years and discovered that the main is not working, but
> the
> reserve is. I will pull it and rebuild both sections soon. They are really
> pretty simple and again, I agree with Paul regarding the diode across the
> coil. It does make the points last longer. Unless the coils are bad in the
> fuel pumps, there is no reason to replace them. They can easily be rebuilt
> (points, diaphragm and diode) many times. You can test them by just
> connecting them directly to a battery (watch the polarity, particularly
> with
> a diode installed).
>
> Slats
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ben Rodgers" <irishrover at netscape.ca>
> To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
> Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 11:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] Calling Rovernet Brain trust!!!
>
>
>> Hi Guys
>> I need help! The Rover has me stumped (1967 P5 Mk3 Std )
>> The car starts and idles okay with full choke on , but once underway I
>> can
>> hardly get out of second gear and continue to need choke. When I rev it
>> struggles and coughs back thru carb, and the engine dies, that indicates
>> a
>> weak mixture, its also running on the hot side. At first it appeared to
>> be
>> the mixture, too rich because of choke but I really believe its too much
>> air, (it coughs thru the carb). I have checked the carb, gas lines, air
>> connections etc, nothing obviously wrong. I decided it was not getting
>> enough gas and as everything checked out in the engine bay. I started at
>> the
>> source, the gas tank, removed cleaned and sealed inside, replaced the
>> dual
>> Lucas pumps with a single after market pump supplied by Ruth at ABC. Took
>> the car for a drive of about four miles it worked fair but not just
>> right.
>> Stopped to filled up with gas then tried to start the car for return
>> journey, would barely idle and stalled when I tried to move. I noticed
>> that
>> the distributor was very hot, heat shield wasn't quite in place (now
>> corrected). I waited while everything cooled and managed to drive home
>> very
>> gently. Next I decided the petronix unit was cooked so replaced with
>> points,
>> no improvement, still started easy and idled but no revs. I decided next
>> the
>> coil, the wire was a bit green so replaced that, no improvement. I have
>> to
>> date done the following - cleaned gas tank. replaced fuel pump. checked
>> everything from tank to engine (several times) checked carb float level,
>> checked all air connections. check coil and changed coil wire. cleaned
>> and
>> re-gapped plugs. checked bolts on intake manifold. played with carb
>> mixture
>> and air screw. I'm stumped, the problem seems to be that the engine is
>> running too weak, getting too much air, but where from. What else could
>> it
>> be??. What am I missing here???? I need the help of the Rovernet Brain
>> Trust
>> on this one please please please.
>> Regards Ben
>> Sitting in my
>> coracle stumped!
>>
>>
>> I have replaced the exhaust valves and had cylinder head cleaned and
>> planed
>> approx two years ago, not many miles on car since.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> FREDERICK (BEN) RODGERS
>> born in Belfast, Northern Ireland,
>> Author of "lily and me" a great book and a great read .
>> Order on line at amazon.com. Book # ISBN1-55430-019-3
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> rovernet mailing list
>> rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to this web page, look near the bottom and follow
>> instructions:
>> http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
>> Back-up list and photos at:
>> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> rovernet mailing list
> rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
> To unsubscribe, go to this web page, scroll to the bottom, and follow
> instructions:
> http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
> Back-up list and photos at:
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
>
> End of rovernet Digest, Vol 46, Issue 53
> ****************************************
>
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