[ROVERNET - UK] Relays, Charging problem & Sorry Eric!
Fletcher
gofanu at usachoice.net
Wed Feb 21 18:39:57 GMT 2007
Gents-
Eric - Sorry for the oversight on the subject line - just missed it this
time!
The moniker "6RA" is a model designation for a relay of this basic form,
not a part designation. There will be a lot of different numbers as
variant of "6RA". This is standard - Lucas practice: parts have a basic
design - the model- and a specific number - the part. Specific relays
could have different contacts, ratings for constant or intermittent use,
mounting brackets, etc., but all be "6RA".
I do not think there is anything special about this one, including the
operating voltage, any standard 12V relay will PROBABLY work. Standard
Bosch "ice cube" relays are Pull-in voltage = Less than 8V, drop-out
voltage 1.2 - 5V. AKA an ON-OFF switch that turns on if there's whizzys
and shuts off when they go away.
Since the subject came up, my brain kicked in to "Archive" mode. Again
these numbers are "Model" designations. The 11AC alt (and any **AC) do
not have internal regulation, later ones **ACR do, hence the "R". Only
pre 70 cars use the **AC type, though there may be stragglers. The **AC
were mostly fitted to Jags, Rover w air, and a few TRs up to 68, when
mass market like MG got alts. By 1970 when alts started to be fitted to
most cars, they realized that there had to be a better way, and solid
state stuff had gotten much better and smaller.
So they put the regulator inside the alt, and eliminated the relay and
the crazy "3AW". I believe that the relay is a totally unnecessary part.
Most systems just feed the field coils from the IGN switch, which is
what the relay accomplishes, and the load on this is not such as to need
a relay. I never got around to sorting out the details, since there are
not many cars with this system. However, I would do so if I had a car
with **AC alt, since parts for the old system are hard to come by and
troublesome. I think that feeding the fields with power from IGN through
the warning light (like most systems do) would eliminate the relay, 3AW,
and a bunch of wires. There may be arcane details to sort, but any
*competent* auto electric shop should be able to figure this out. It is
also likely that a good shop could figure out how to replace the "4TR"
and the other extraneous crap with a self contained solid state
regulator from any number of other vehicles of the time - I believe
Chrysler used one on their early alt equipped cars, cost about $10.
Now all you gotta do is find a *competent* shop!
FRM
rovernet-request at lyris.ccdata.com wrote:
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>[ROVERNET-UK]
>
>Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: rovernet Digest, Vol 51, Issue 26 (Fletcher)
> 2. To Rovernet Digest Users (Eric Russell)
> 3. charging problem (Steve Lawrence)
> 4. 3500S shock absorbers (Bill Robertson)
> 5. Antw: [ROVERNET - UK] 3500S shock absorbers
> (Pfvandermeulen at cs.com)
> 6. Re: charging problem (David Read)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 11:44:12 -0500
>From: Fletcher <gofanu at usachoice.net>
>Subject: [ROVERNET - UK] Re: rovernet Digest, Vol 51, Issue 26
>To: rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
>Message-ID: <45DB255C.5050207 at usachoice.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
>Steve-
>The 6RA controls current to field coils, ie, it functions as the cut-out
>part of an old style regulator. So if he dead, you dead. It can be
>cleaned up/adjusted by opening it up. Contacts C1-C2 close between 6.0
>to 7.5V across W1-W2., with an adjustable voltage supply. Contacts open
>as voltage is reduced below 4.0V min. Must use moving coil voltmeter to
>see this correctly. But any relay that turns on/off anywhere close to
>that range should work as a replacement - common 4 terminal relays on
>everything today..
> Don't think the 3AW does anything except turn light on, but it gets
>activated off one pair of Alt diodes, so if these are flaky it might
>not work, but would be indicating partial alt failure.Test procedures
>available if you need them.
>FRM
>
>rovernet-request at lyris.ccdata.com wrote:
>
>>Send rovernet mailing list submissions to
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>>
>>[ROVERNET-UK]
>>
>>Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. RE: looking For Roar Nygard (roland)
>> 2. Re: looking For Roar Nygard (roland)
>> 3. Re: off topic (Slatskars)
>> 4. Re: Charging Problem (David Read)
>>
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>Message: 1
>>Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 18:13:00 -0800 (PST)
>>From: roland <veetwinrider at yahoo.com>
>>Subject: RE: [ROVERNET - UK] looking For Roar Nygard
>>To: rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
>>Message-ID: <211326.93943.qm at web55111.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>
>>
>>--- Peter Mitchell <peter_m at amnet.net.au> wrote:
>>
>>>Hi Roland,
>>>
>>>On an 'MG Links' site at
>>>http://www.theautoist.com/links.htm
>>>
>>>I found this email address for Roar: irene at east.no
>>>
>>>Hope this is successful.
>>>
>>>Cheers
>>>
>>>Peter Mitchell
>>>Perth W/Australia
>>>
>>Thanks Peter.
>>
>> roland
>>DL650
>> Rover P5
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------
>>
>>Message: 2
>>Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 18:14:09 -0800 (PST)
>>From: roland <veetwinrider at yahoo.com>
>>Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] looking For Roar Nygard
>>To: rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
>>Message-ID: <487857.88159.qm at web55107.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>
>>
>>--- Glen Wilson <rovercar at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Roland,
>>>
>>>Try irene at east.no <mailto:irene at east.no>
>>>
>>>Might still be good...
>>>
>>>Glen
>>>It went through, so I'm thinking it's still good.
>>>
>>Thanks.
>>
>>
>> roland
>>DL650
>> Rover P5
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------
>>
>>Message: 3
>>Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 20:43:16 -0800
>>From: "Slatskars" <slatskars at comcast.net>
>>Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] off topic
>>To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
>>Message-ID: <00b501c754a9$a37b9520$dddfa943 at FAMILYROOM>
>>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>> reply-type=original
>>
>>All I can give you is sympathy Ben. Sounds like a locking gas cap is in
>>order. Is castration legal in Canada???
>>
>>Slats
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Ben Rodgers" <irishrover at netscape.ca>
>>To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
>>Cc: "Batans" <members at batans.ca>
>>Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 2:40 PM
>>Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] off topic
>>
>>
>>>Hi Folks
>>> I'm looking for advice regarding a problem my daughter has.
>>>Someone put sugar in her gas tank (2000 Saturn) she only drove approx 4
>>>miles before noticing the sugar around the filler. The car is in a garage
>>>the tank is off and was found to be full of sugar. I would be interested
>>>in
>>>hearing the best approach in resolving the problem. For example the fuel
>>>pump lines and injectors, can they be cleaned or should they be replace,
>>>is
>>>they a chance of any serious engine damage. I'd appreciate any ideas
>>>advice
>>>etc.
>>> Thanks Ben
>>>(irishrover)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>FREDERICK (BEN) RODGERS.CD
>>>Born in Belfast, Northern Ireland,
>>>Author of "lily and me" a great book and a great read .
>>>Order on line at amazon
>>>Visit my web page http://home.netscape.ca/~rodgl/
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rover_net/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------
>>
>>Message: 4
>>Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 15:59:21 +1030
>>From: David Read <defender110 at ozemail.com.au>
>>Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] Charging Problem
>>To: rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
>>Message-ID: <45DA8731.4050402 at ozemail.com.au>
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>>
>>Hi Steve
>>Not sure what model alt and relay warning light control we are talking
>>about.
>>Does the 6RA relay incorporate the regulator?
>>The shop did check the condition of the slip rings and brush assembly?
>>
>>Cheers
>>Dave
>>South Oz
>>
>>Steve Lawrence wrote:
>>
>>>Hi Dave,
>>>The idiot light is on -- constantly. I have a voltage meter installed
>>>in the car and it shows no charge. Just battery voltage.
>>>Do you think the 6RA relay could be the cause, or the warning light
>>>control 3AW?
>>>I will check again for corrosion, but all looks quite clean. I cleaned
>>>all connections (that I know of).
>>>Thanks,
>>>Steve
>>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------
>>
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>>rovernet mailing list
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>>End of rovernet Digest, Vol 51, Issue 26
>>****************************************
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 10:03:00 -0800 (PST)
>From: Eric Russell <p6rovers at yahoo.com>
>Subject: [ROVERNET - UK] To Rovernet Digest Users
>To: Rovernet <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
>Message-ID: <20070220180300.42937.qmail at web34313.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>As you are quietly reading your digest, you may become
>motivated to reply to something you have read.
>
>When you click "Reply" would you please do ONE MORE
>THING. Click ahead or behind the "Subject" line and
>delete by "backspace" or by highlight-backspace the
>entire subject line. Then insert a few words which
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>won't find anything other than "[ROVERNET - UK] Re:
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>The member won't be any further ahead in his search.
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>Thanks,
>Eric, List manager
>for: Digest users, and Archive users
>
>
>Webmaster of The Rover Car Club of Canada
>Website: http://www.roverclub.ca/
>Webmaster of a variety of sites from:
>http://www.websrus.ca
>
>
>
>____________________________________________________________________________________
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>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 11:22:41 -0800
>From: "Steve Lawrence" <jaoa27 at verizon.net>
>Subject: [ROVERNET - UK] charging problem
>To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
>Message-ID: <009401c75524$7e44cc10$0100a8c0 at c1794673a>
>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=Windows-1252;
> reply-type=original
>
>Fletcher,
>Since this relay is so old, I may just replace it, as I am still looking for
>my voltmeter (packed from recent move). I will open the can to see if the
>contacts close though.
>
>I am glad you mention that most relays will work because the 6RA's that I
>just looked at for sale on ebay etc. all have different code numbers! I
>wonder why there are so many different ones if they all open/close at
>approx. the same voltage.
>Thank you (again!).
>Steve
>
>
>
>Steve-
>The 6RA controls current to field coils, ie, it functions as the cut-out
>part of an old style regulator. So if he dead, you dead. It can be
>cleaned up/adjusted by opening it up. Contacts C1-C2 close between 6.0
>to 7.5V across W1-W2., with an adjustable voltage supply. Contacts open
>as voltage is reduced below 4.0V min. Must use moving coil voltmeter to
>see this correctly. But any relay that turns on/off anywhere close to
>that range should work as a replacement - common 4 terminal relays on
>everything today..
>Don't think the 3AW does anything except turn light on, but it gets
>activated off one pair of Alt diodes, so if these are flaky it might
>not work, but would be indicating partial alt failure.Test procedures
>available if you need them.
>FRM
>
>rovernet-request at lyris.ccdata.com wrote:
>
>>Send rovernet mailing list submissions to
>>rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
>>
>>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>http://mailman.nipltd.com/mailman/listinfo/rovernet
>>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>rovernet-request at lyris.ccdata.com
>>
>>You can reach the person managing the list at
>>rovernet-owner at lyris.ccdata.com
>>
>>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>than "Re: Contents of rovernet digest..."
>>
>>
>>[ROVERNET-UK]
>>
>>Today's Topics:
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 20:08:18 +0000
>From: "Bill Robertson" <rover2000nut at hotmail.com>
>Subject: [ROVERNET - UK] 3500S shock absorbers
>To: rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
>Message-ID: <BAY119-F19AC7192B58CA8141472F1DE890 at phx.gbl>
>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
>Hi i'm looking at my car and the shocks are in need of
>replacement..............Does anyone know if the Koni shocks are still
>available and if so from where and what is the number.........I seem to
>remember seeing this months before i got one of these cars................or
>what else does everyone else recommend
>
>Thanks for the help
>Bill Robertson
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Find out the restaurants participating in Winterlicious
>http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=43.658648~-79.383962&style=r&lvl=15&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=3702663&cid=7ABE80D1746919B4!1329
>>From January 26 to February 8, 2007
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 15:43:05 EST
>From: Pfvandermeulen at cs.com
>Subject: Antw: [ROVERNET - UK] 3500S shock absorbers
>To: rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
>Message-ID: <c3a.e863fd7.330cb759 at cs.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
>hello bill,front or rear?
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 6
>Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 18:34:07 +1030
>From: David Read <defender110 at ozemail.com.au>
>Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] charging problem
>To: rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com
>Message-ID: <45DBFCF7.7000703 at ozemail.com.au>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
>If you Google search for "6RA relay" (no quotes)
>You will get a number of hits.
>
>Cheers
>Dave
>South Oz
>
>Steve Lawrence wrote:
>
>>Fletcher,
>>Since this relay is so old, I may just replace it, as I am still looking
>>for my voltmeter (packed from recent move). I will open the can to see
>>if the contacts close though.
>>
><snip>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>rovernet mailing list
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>To unsubscribe, go to this web page, scroll to the bottom, and follow instructions:
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>End of rovernet Digest, Vol 51, Issue 27
>****************************************
>
>
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