[ROVERNET - UK] Yet another Response to Glen

phing phing at videotron.ca
Sat Mar 29 22:06:34 GMT 2008

 As I've been trying to tell you . The answer to your questions is "All of the above " Of course its equally possible that some one 
on the production line at 4 47pm on a wet Friday night in November stuck the wrong VIN number on the car , just for a giggle . 
Industrial sabotage was almost the national sport !.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Glen Wilson" <rovercar at comcast.net>
To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] Response to Glen's well intended comments

> Well, I was patiently answering questions as you can read below, but in terms of recanting...
> Your car has a Federal 3500S VIN according to Taylors book.
> Your car does not have Federal 3500S front wings.
> Your car does not have Federal 3500S front bumpers (or, I assume rear bumpers?)
>                (scroll down re bumpers)
> You did have the metal pieces at the bottom of the front fenders.
> Your car does not have the floor dimmer mentioned in the 3500S operation manual.
> Your car does not have Fed 3500S directional indicators.
> Your car does not have the steering column stalks described in the 3500S manual.
> So what are we saying, here. That your car has factory differences? That on the day your car was put together they didn't have 
> NADA bumpers, fenders, indicator lights, floor dimmer switches or column switchgear?
> How could this car possibly be a Federal 3500S that has not been altered?
> Sounds like a lot of parts that don't belong on a car with your VIN, Dennis.
> Glen
> Brooks wrote:
>> Lots of good questions raised there Glen...I will do my best to answer most of them...
>> "Did Canada get a hodge-podge of parts because they had less specific laws than the
>> United States? "
>> I don't know what the US regulations were at that time...however today the regulations seem to be even more strict here...as most 
>> US destined vehicles need to be modified to meet Canadian standards before importing.
>> The P6B that I am refering to NEVER had under the bumper turn signals...The signals were wired into the front wing much like the 
>> 3500 that was built for the home market in England....
> Just to be specific, the P6B you mention is a Federal 3500S, right? I'm sure there are tons of P6Bs without the bumper 
> directionals.
>> the wings were not the same as fitted to the P6 ...however they did have a small piece of stainless (I believe) fitted to the 
>> lower portion of the wing next to the rocker panel (is this also seen on 3500 cars made for the home market ?
> Those pieces were original to the Fed 3500S, and I'm pretty sure they were aluminum. Why they didn't just paint the fender, I 
> don't know...
>> "Seems like some rewiring would be involved in deleting
>> the under bumper lights"
>> Again...not really ...as the lights were actually an addition as you noted for the NADA market....wether it was required by law 
>> is a bit doubtful when you consider the other cars sold in the same market at that time .
> I think they just spliced in wires that ran down to the under bumper lights. I know I read somewhere that those things were added 
> to meet regulations, but I can't find where I read it, so that's hearsay!  ;-)  They appeared first on the TC that preceded the 
> 3500S and might have arrived along with the side marker lights which were definitely federally mandated down here. Maybe the ones 
> up top were simply not bright enough or didn't have enough visibility from an angle.
>> I have a P6B with a unit that is completly different from any I have seen ...it's reversed to the opposite side like we have in 
>> todays cars...also it came with a high beam flash plus on the unit you have the feature of hi-lo beam switching ...not a dimmer 
>> on the floor. The floor mat has never even had the hole for the dimmer punched out in order to install the unit.
> Now. we're cooking with gas. What's the VIN on that car? Let's sleuth it out. I'm still not clear on the setup. The '69 brochures 
> I have show the directional on the right. The left stalk will flash the high beams when pulled back if lights are off or in low 
> beam. The lights are turned on using the rotary switch on the dash. High beams by floor button.  The much older 2000 manual from 
> 1964 shows the hi/low selection being done by the left stalk.  If you read between the lines, it looks like they left that same 
> switch at the base of the left stalk even when they finally only using a single function of it to flash the lights.  Someone can 
> check a parts manual, but it might have been pretty easy to just hook up that switch to operate like it did on the old cars, 
> especially if the wires were still in the harness.  If that's the case, the dealer would not have had to change the switches on 
> the column because they never changed (just didn't get hooked up).
>> "The directional indicators and horn are on the right side,
>> the headlight flasher control on a stem to the left."
>> Not true on all P6B cars...as I own one that didn't come that way...My Dad removed the unit and refitted it to another P6B that 
>> he was driving.
> Not clear what you mean, here. If it "didn't come that way" did you have one that had the directional lever on the left and the 
> flasher on the right?
> Again, are we talking Fed 3500S here, or just generic P6B? There's lots of P6Bs, but there are only 2000 Fed 3500S's. Did you guys 
> get any 3500 models up there before they brought the Fed 3500S over?
>> "Have you definitely seen 3500S's in
>> Canada that don't have the dimmer footswitch on the floor? To me, it
>> seems much more likely that such a car was modified by some owner than
>> that it was manufactured that way at the factory."
>> Yes...I own it...and before me Ben Rogers owned it....at the time of purchase Ben told me that everything was the way he bought 
>> the car...and I can't really see anyone going to such trouble as to remove the foot dimmer hide the holes where it would be 
>> fastened ...change the wiring and replace the floor mat with one that was never cut for a floor mounted dimmer....it's just too 
>> much of a strech to make.
> Again, share the VIN on that car.
>> "Even in 1964, NADA P6's had foot dimmers. "
>> I'm sure the '64 Mustang did as well...but eventually things evolve...so I am not sure what your point is  ....most of the P6B 
>> cars had foot dimmers....but I have one that does not...and never did.
> Point is that if the foot dimmer was standard on NADA cars since 1964, why would they  make yours without one? Unless it wasn't 
> intended for this market...
>> "The bumpers of a 3500S are unique to the 3500S and so are the front
>> wings to match them. If a 3500S was shipped with non-standard front
>> bumpers, they would have to have been 2000TC bumpers which would mean
>> the car had 2000TC front wings, as well. How could the factory send out
>> a car like that?"
>> That's making a lot of unfounded presumptions Glen
> Not if it's an NADA Federal 3500S. Why does your car have so many anomalies?
>> ....I actually think it was fitted with a front bumper from the three thousand five....it would fit directly and would easily 
>> explain the lights in the front wings operating like the ones used in the three thousand five model as well...I also think you 
>> may find the front bumper of the 3500S is also a direct fit to the three thousand five...contrary to your statement.
> I don't know if it would bolt onto a 3500, but the Fed 3500S bumper was unique to the model. That's a definite fact. Someone in 
> the UK or Europe would have to let us know if the 3500 had the same wings as the 2000. If so, the Fed 3500S bumper wouldn't bolt 
> onto a 3500 because it would be missing an attachment point on each side. In fact, I just looked at pictures of the 3500 and can 
> confirm what I just said. You could fit 3500 bumpers to a 3500S, but you'd have an empty hole in each front wing. If you put the 
> heavy wrap-around bumper on a 3500, the ends would not be supported.
>> " Is it possible that the car you are remembering was a TC and not a
>> 3500S? Maybe a non-NADA LHD 2000 or 2000TC was imported into Canada by someone."
>> An honest question...but not even a glimer of a chance....These are not the same 3500 S units that I am noting differences ...but 
>> they are certainly not "TC" models....I've owned and driven a 3500S since 71' ....I am very familiar with the marquis and believe 
>> me there are indeed many factory differences ...for whatever reason...I can't tell you for certain ...but you are off the mark 
>> when you try to explain those differences as after market or dealer modifications.
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>> "I'm not sure what you mean by finishing trims in the boot."
>> Up until I saw the P6B that I bought fronm Quebec...I had never seen stainless steel installed along the back edge of the 
>> trunk...located just inside the lip where the carpet stops....there was a full length of stainless installed there . It was a 
>> match to the desigm used on the entry step of the main part of the car...it was not something that was aftermarket ...it was 
>> factory installed ...even the screws marched the rest of the screws used on the cars other trim pieces....
>> ...................................................................................................
>> "If I saw a car with a non-NADA spec headlight
>> dimmer circuit, I would check the VIN to see if it was ever intended to
>> end up in North America."
>> Sounds reasonable.....43301964A
>> Once again Glen....it stands the test....perhaps you might care to reconsider and recant....LOL
>> .........................................................
>> Now as a final thought....every car that came to canada had to meet standards that were put in place effective Jan 1/1968...so 
>> the bumper theory you have so clearly noted may indeed be only a theory...because if it were factual ...then please explain how 
>> the 1968 Rover 2000  was permitted to roam the streets of the USA ... Just a little food for thought :)
> Don't confuse the Clean Air Act requirements with the new auto safety requirements that came about a year later.
>> Regards
>>  Dennis Brooks
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