[ROVERNET - UK] Yet another Response to Glen

Reverend Weasel rweasel at gmail.com
Sun Mar 30 04:50:00 BST 2008

Actually, somewhere I have a letter proving that very thing happened,
the numbers were switched on 2 cars.  BL basically said ignore the
plate, the VIN is what we say it is.

On 29/03/2008, phing <phing at videotron.ca> wrote:
> Glen
>   As I've been trying to tell you . The answer to your questions is "All of the above " Of course its equally possible that some one
>  on the production line at 4 47pm on a wet Friday night in November stuck the wrong VIN number on the car , just for a giggle .
>  Industrial sabotage was almost the national sport !.
>  Cheers
>   Patrick
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Glen Wilson" <rovercar at comcast.net>
>  To: <rovernet at lyris.ccdata.com>
>  Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 5:54 PM
>  Subject: Re: [ROVERNET - UK] Response to Glen's well intended comments
>  >
>  > Well, I was patiently answering questions as you can read below, but in terms of recanting...
>  >
>  > Your car has a Federal 3500S VIN according to Taylors book.
>  >
>  > Your car does not have Federal 3500S front wings.
>  >
>  > Your car does not have Federal 3500S front bumpers (or, I assume rear bumpers?)
>  >                (scroll down re bumpers)
>  > You did have the metal pieces at the bottom of the front fenders.
>  >
>  > Your car does not have the floor dimmer mentioned in the 3500S operation manual.
>  >
>  > Your car does not have Fed 3500S directional indicators.
>  >
>  > Your car does not have the steering column stalks described in the 3500S manual.
>  >
>  > So what are we saying, here. That your car has factory differences? That on the day your car was put together they didn't have
>  > NADA bumpers, fenders, indicator lights, floor dimmer switches or column switchgear?
>  >
>  > How could this car possibly be a Federal 3500S that has not been altered?
>  >
>  > Sounds like a lot of parts that don't belong on a car with your VIN, Dennis.
>  >
>  > Glen
>  >
>  >
>  > Brooks wrote:
>  >> Lots of good questions raised there Glen...I will do my best to answer most of them...
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> "Did Canada get a hodge-podge of parts because they had less specific laws than the
>  >> United States? "
>  >>
>  >> I don't know what the US regulations were at that time...however today the regulations seem to be even more strict here...as most
>  >> US destined vehicles need to be modified to meet Canadian standards before importing.
>  >> The P6B that I am refering to NEVER had under the bumper turn signals...The signals were wired into the front wing much like the
>  >> 3500 that was built for the home market in England....
>  > Just to be specific, the P6B you mention is a Federal 3500S, right? I'm sure there are tons of P6Bs without the bumper
>  > directionals.
>  >
>  >> the wings were not the same as fitted to the P6 ...however they did have a small piece of stainless (I believe) fitted to the
>  >> lower portion of the wing next to the rocker panel (is this also seen on 3500 cars made for the home market ?
>  > Those pieces were original to the Fed 3500S, and I'm pretty sure they were aluminum. Why they didn't just paint the fender, I
>  > don't know...
>  >> "Seems like some rewiring would be involved in deleting
>  >> the under bumper lights"
>  >>
>  >> Again...not really ...as the lights were actually an addition as you noted for the NADA market....wether it was required by law
>  >> is a bit doubtful when you consider the other cars sold in the same market at that time .
>  > I think they just spliced in wires that ran down to the under bumper lights. I know I read somewhere that those things were added
>  > to meet regulations, but I can't find where I read it, so that's hearsay!  ;-)  They appeared first on the TC that preceded the
>  > 3500S and might have arrived along with the side marker lights which were definitely federally mandated down here. Maybe the ones
>  > up top were simply not bright enough or didn't have enough visibility from an angle.
>  >
>  >> I have a P6B with a unit that is completly different from any I have seen ...it's reversed to the opposite side like we have in
>  >> todays cars...also it came with a high beam flash plus on the unit you have the feature of hi-lo beam switching ...not a dimmer
>  >> on the floor. The floor mat has never even had the hole for the dimmer punched out in order to install the unit.
>  > Now. we're cooking with gas. What's the VIN on that car? Let's sleuth it out. I'm still not clear on the setup. The '69 brochures
>  > I have show the directional on the right. The left stalk will flash the high beams when pulled back if lights are off or in low
>  > beam. The lights are turned on using the rotary switch on the dash. High beams by floor button.  The much older 2000 manual from
>  > 1964 shows the hi/low selection being done by the left stalk.  If you read between the lines, it looks like they left that same
>  > switch at the base of the left stalk even when they finally only using a single function of it to flash the lights.  Someone can
>  > check a parts manual, but it might have been pretty easy to just hook up that switch to operate like it did on the old cars,
>  > especially if the wires were still in the harness.  If that's the case, the dealer would not have had to change the switches on
>  > the column because they never changed (just didn't get hooked up).
>  >
>  >> "The directional indicators and horn are on the right side,
>  >> the headlight flasher control on a stem to the left."
>  >>
>  >> Not true on all P6B cars...as I own one that didn't come that way...My Dad removed the unit and refitted it to another P6B that
>  >> he was driving.
>  > Not clear what you mean, here. If it "didn't come that way" did you have one that had the directional lever on the left and the
>  > flasher on the right?
>  >
>  > Again, are we talking Fed 3500S here, or just generic P6B? There's lots of P6Bs, but there are only 2000 Fed 3500S's. Did you guys
>  > get any 3500 models up there before they brought the Fed 3500S over?
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >> "Have you definitely seen 3500S's in
>  >> Canada that don't have the dimmer footswitch on the floor? To me, it
>  >> seems much more likely that such a car was modified by some owner than
>  >> that it was manufactured that way at the factory."
>  >>
>  >> Yes...I own it...and before me Ben Rogers owned it....at the time of purchase Ben told me that everything was the way he bought
>  >> the car...and I can't really see anyone going to such trouble as to remove the foot dimmer hide the holes where it would be
>  >> fastened ...change the wiring and replace the floor mat with one that was never cut for a floor mounted dimmer....it's just too
>  >> much of a strech to make.
>  >>
>  > Again, share the VIN on that car.
>  >
>  >> "Even in 1964, NADA P6's had foot dimmers. "
>  >>
>  >> I'm sure the '64 Mustang did as well...but eventually things evolve...so I am not sure what your point is  ....most of the P6B
>  >> cars had foot dimmers....but I have one that does not...and never did.
>  > Point is that if the foot dimmer was standard on NADA cars since 1964, why would they  make yours without one? Unless it wasn't
>  > intended for this market...
>  >>
>  >> "The bumpers of a 3500S are unique to the 3500S and so are the front
>  >> wings to match them. If a 3500S was shipped with non-standard front
>  >> bumpers, they would have to have been 2000TC bumpers which would mean
>  >> the car had 2000TC front wings, as well. How could the factory send out
>  >> a car like that?"
>  >>
>  >> That's making a lot of unfounded presumptions Glen
>  > Not if it's an NADA Federal 3500S. Why does your car have so many anomalies?
>  >> ....I actually think it was fitted with a front bumper from the three thousand five....it would fit directly and would easily
>  >> explain the lights in the front wings operating like the ones used in the three thousand five model as well...I also think you
>  >> may find the front bumper of the 3500S is also a direct fit to the three thousand five...contrary to your statement.
>  > I don't know if it would bolt onto a 3500, but the Fed 3500S bumper was unique to the model. That's a definite fact. Someone in
>  > the UK or Europe would have to let us know if the 3500 had the same wings as the 2000. If so, the Fed 3500S bumper wouldn't bolt
>  > onto a 3500 because it would be missing an attachment point on each side. In fact, I just looked at pictures of the 3500 and can
>  > confirm what I just said. You could fit 3500 bumpers to a 3500S, but you'd have an empty hole in each front wing. If you put the
>  > heavy wrap-around bumper on a 3500, the ends would not be supported.
>  >> " Is it possible that the car you are remembering was a TC and not a
>  >> 3500S? Maybe a non-NADA LHD 2000 or 2000TC was imported into Canada by someone."
>  >>
>  >> An honest question...but not even a glimer of a chance....These are not the same 3500 S units that I am noting differences ...but
>  >> they are certainly not "TC" models....I've owned and driven a 3500S since 71' ....I am very familiar with the marquis and believe
>  >> me there are indeed many factory differences ...for whatever reason...I can't tell you for certain ...but you are off the mark
>  >> when you try to explain those differences as after market or dealer modifications.
>  >>
>  >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> "I'm not sure what you mean by finishing trims in the boot."
>  >>
>  >> Up until I saw the P6B that I bought fronm Quebec...I had never seen stainless steel installed along the back edge of the
>  >> trunk...located just inside the lip where the carpet stops....there was a full length of stainless installed there . It was a
>  >> match to the desigm used on the entry step of the main part of the car...it was not something that was aftermarket ...it was
>  >> factory installed ...even the screws marched the rest of the screws used on the cars other trim pieces....
>  >>
>  >> ...................................................................................................
>  >>
>  >> "If I saw a car with a non-NADA spec headlight
>  >> dimmer circuit, I would check the VIN to see if it was ever intended to
>  >> end up in North America."
>  >>
>  >> Sounds reasonable.....43301964A
>  >>
>  >> Once again Glen....it stands the test....perhaps you might care to reconsider and recant....LOL
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> .........................................................
>  >>
>  >> Now as a final thought....every car that came to canada had to meet standards that were put in place effective Jan 1/1968...so
>  >> the bumper theory you have so clearly noted may indeed be only a theory...because if it were factual ...then please explain how
>  >> the 1968 Rover 2000  was permitted to roam the streets of the USA ... Just a little food for thought :)
>  >>
>  >
>  > Don't confuse the Clean Air Act requirements with the new auto safety requirements that came about a year later.
>  >
>  >>
>  >> Regards
>  >>
>  >>  Dennis Brooks
>  >>
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